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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Jody Aliesan 
April 24, 1996  
Cassette 3, Side 2 
 
 
Julie O'Grady  00:02 
Okay, this is side B of tape three.  
 
Jody Aliesan  00:06 
[Inaudible.] Okay, couple of things I remember, and one was that our office was bugged so 
heavily, and maybe the local umbrella police organization was also bugged, but at any rate, when 
we called them, it was really noticeable, much more than when we called anyone else. The 
buzzes and the clicks and faintness of our voices, so that we started saying hello to the agent, too, 
when we [laughs], when we made the calls. Uh, I should say that maybe a couple years later, and 
I'm talking now, I guess this was much later, 1970, I believe. I, with a couple other people, put 
on what we called an anti-war fair. Three of us were poets, two men and myself, and one was a 
veteran. And when I finally sent for my file with the Freedom of Information Act and got back 
my FBI file, it was all shredded up. They clipped out a lot of information, like a snowflake being 
held up to the--like a snowflake being held up to the light, because they had loopholes, literally, 
about what they could, um, continue to withhold from you, if it would, you know, endanger the 
cover of some agent or other. But one and there were, there were things in there from both 
Alabama and DC, but one really amusing thing was that that poetry reading in Seattle was 
attended by an FBI agent who gave a complete report of the reading, not only what we said, but 
what we read, poetry, but what we said [inaudible], that I think, was really an example of the 
waste of taxpayers' money that they were sending these well-paid agents to something like a 
poetry reading. In Chicago, also, I remember now that I was covered by, shadowed by, 
somebody, plain clothes, who, um, I started recognizing in the background everywhere I went, 
not only oratory or community events, but some readings that I supported. Um, and I remember 
[inaudible].  
 
Jody Aliesan  02:40 
And the other thing about the Chicago experience was that, um, this was during Vice President 
Agnew's immediate intimidation time. He was setting things up. He was the hatchet person for 
Nixon, setting things up so that people would believe that if the media covered a marginal rally 
ahead of time, or let anybody know by means of newspaper , television, or radio, when it would 
be, where it would be, that this was a treasonous act, and I don't know what may have gone on in 
the background of things, what kinds of threats that were made undercover, but the effect was to 
intimidate the media into, um, silence about what we were [?offering?], what we were doing. So 
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it was an added challenge, as a media rep, to get the word out, and I had to find sideways 
methods for doing it. And one that I remember that happened was that I called, say, a dozen 
hotels trying to find a room where we could have a press conference, and every one of them said 
that on that date, at that hour, they decided that they had no rooms available. And I can't 
remember the connections now, but basically, I ended up talking with a reporter about it, who 
also agreed that this was very interesting, and got me connected with an ACLU attorney. Uh, and 
then the reporter, I guess it was, called the same hotels as a representative [inaudible]. And funny 
thing, they had-had a room for him. Every one of those hotels had a room at that time. So then he 
made a story about it. It was on the second page of the paper. And then the story happened to 
mention what I was trying to do, which was to announce the place and the time this rally, so we 
got the word out that way. We also got it out through gossip columns and, um, talk shows, things 
like that, and I should mention that it was the largest rally in the history of the city of Chicago.  
 
Jody Aliesan  05:01 
That day, standing up on the platform, speaking with someone, religious lady who was going to 
do the benediction. Down below were all these people representing the TV networks with their 
cameras, and one of them yelled up to me, "Jody, let us up there! We make you!" I didn't say 
anything, just--I was told to wait until the preliminary ceremony was over, because the point was 
all the people gathered there together, the point was not to give them sound bites and shots for 
their shows. I don't know, but that was good. We were able to do it without whatever it was, 
collusion, and be able to show that when people want to be heard, the vice president can't silence 
us.   
 
Jody Aliesan  06:00 
Well, I think I've already talked about the transition from the Moratorium Committee to the 
Women's Movement, and my involvement and movement to Seattle. And-and also why I left and 
committed to writing. And part of the reason that I left is um, an indicator of, um, a weakness 
within myself in regards to political work. And that is I have a hard time with conflict within an--
a movement organization. When I first started, there was a group of us, um, and it made me think 
there is, and it was there at the time because we were [inaudible] in town and all knew one other 
and [inaudible] were doing the work. And there was a unselfconscious solidarity, comradeship in 
the face of the enormity of what we were having to work with, work against, work in spite of.  
 
Jody Aliesan  07:07 
And then a while later, a second wave, you might say, or another, another wave of young women 
who appeared to me, to envy what they saw was some sort of glamour in what we had done, and 
also envy our solidarity with one another that came from the trenches and depending on one 
another, so we were really trusting of one another, [?knew each other to be responsible?]. So 
when they entered the-the scene, and now I'm talking about the University YWCA, but 
[inaudible], their response to that was not "Here, let me help out," and, "Where can I fit in," but 
to criticize the ones who come before, criticize the organization, criticism of [inaudible].  
 
Julie O'Grady  08:02 
What is the timeframe between the before and when people were coming in? Was it-- 
 
Jody Aliesan  08:07 
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Oh. It was just-- In those days, a week was like a year. Now there's so much going on, so much 
happening. When you realize how many organizations right now are celebrating their 20th and 
25th anniversaries, you have some sense of seed ground, that was--the ferment that was going on 
there. So when I'm talking the first wave and second wave, I'm talking between 1970 and 1971, 
of um, of women who-who were attracted to what it was being done and wanted to be part of it, 
but somehow, um, instead of doing it, [inaudible], part of it working with people who needed 
convincing or who were trying to instruct us or whatever, instead of [inaudible] their criticism 
and trying--That was really hard. It's always harder when women did the same hurtful things that 
were coming from the outside, from men, or even from women on the court outside the work that 
didn't understand what was going on or accepted the media portrayal of feminists, which, 
because [inaudible] in the 19th century, it was first of all, a lot of ridicule, and then very harsh 
characterizations. Cultural [inaudible]. Anyway, that was tough on me emotionally.  
 
Jody Aliesan  09:42 
Um, and then the other tough thing, was that I was doing a lot of singing [inaudible], and-and 
there were women who were critical about that and said that they disagreed when we sang in 
certain places and for certain people. [Inaudible] [?disagreed with certain things about how our 
operations were.?] [Inaudible]. They recruited to me, but I think that, because of differences that 
we had about [inaudible] policies or assumptions of-of their helpless ignorance of whether 
women wanted preventive access to, um, contraception, for example. And they weren't there 
when I put that in place, but they could see how-how much I, uh, help hold peoples' feet to the 
fire, and how much I felt like I was educating them about our point of view. Instead, the criticism 
was, um, coming from them sensing that I was being [inaudible], to go and sing to them, was to 
somehow proof to them, or be, um, serving them in some way. And, I don't know, someone like 
myself being an individualist at this point. I suppose that's true of me. Maybe it comes along with 
being intuitive and different. 
 
Jody Aliesan  11:20 
Otherwise, I don't get a lot of pleasure out of being part of any kind of movement [inaudible]. It's 
just that I do it in my own way, and I couldn't belong or sing when, when I felt that people were 
[inaudible], and that they had the right to direct me and criticize me for what I was supposed to 
do, rather than understanding and supporting me. So, um, I remember writing a song, a kind of 
farewell song about that. Um, but I won't get into right now. I have [inaudible]. So there was that 
part of it, too, but then the other part of it was a commitment to writing that came from 
understanding that I was not temperamentally suited to doing full-time political work, um, 
political work as my life's work. That I--That I could do short term work on issues and in 
campaigns, and that I could certainly make donations of time and money, um, and, um, 
[inaudible] books to auctions, that support specific events and just continue as a writer, be a part 
of a, I guess, cultural worker, be part of the education, and the awareness, consciousness-raising, 
and just being out as a person in whatever way, in my daily life, it being part of my contribution.  
 
Jody Aliesan  13:06 
So I began a [inaudible] in 1972. I quit full-time work, quit movement work, and savings was-
was about to live on for six months. And then find the first of many jobs that happened since 
then that would suit, uh, writing. And I've tried a number of different things, and there have been 
times that I've had to go full-time and-and earn more money for specific reasons, changes in my 
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life, but mostly in part-time jobs in a context that would enable my writing to be the center of my 
life. And the first blessing [?that was in favor of?] PCC. I started out in, um, August of '72, 
working in produce, and [inaudible] old store on 65th, which is now a yoga center, with third-
hand equipment, 12 months there, and this was before I moved up to what is now the Ravenna 
store, where [inaudible] historically added. And I have worked at PCC for a couple years in the 
middle of every decade since. I feel that the people there are one of my communities: six of the 
original twelve of us that were working there when I started are still on staff. I remember 
bringing some people on staff altogether now, and I feel that through all the changes, and all the 
growth, that the soul of the system was still intact, and I've been able to make my contribution, 
and um, towards an organization that has made the whole difference in the systemic [inaudible] 
of agriculture in the state. And, uh, shaping the work for a co-operative can be by being a 
hardworking line employee, worked for them in produce, and then as a packager and cashier, and 
then member relations person in the Ravenna office there.  
 
Jody Aliesan  15:25 
And certainly, working at PCC, uh, was part of my vegetarian way of being, although I started 
becoming aware of that before I worked at PCC. And even as [inaudible] in high school, which 
was a problem again with family, because they were so proud of being able to put meat on the 
table every day, and that I wouldn't eat it was difficult for them. Um. You know, these little-- 
These little hurts that we create for one another when we're only trying to be true to ourselves. So 
anyway, what else I could say about political involvement is that since then, working on 
individual events, making donations to involve short-term campaigns, I have, uh, participated in 
a couple of things in the, uh, queer community, [inaudible] because it's very inclusive, gay, 
lesbian, bisexual, transgender people. Um, and I took part in the effort against the [?riots?] 
initiative in 1978 to limit, uh, employment, housing rights here in Seattle. Worked on the office 
staff to campaign for that. And then also involved in, last year's [inaudible] two initiatives, as a 
poet, um, [inaudible].  
 
Jody Aliesan  17:00 
And then, um, I-I--don't intend to [inaudible] for another year. Kind of bored of that [chuckles]. I 
try to keep it at ten because it got me, um, [inaudible] gone overboard the year before. And-and, 
uh, my-my four main areas of contribution are, um, queer issues, the women's community, the 
environmental movement, and, uh, Ireland. So environmentally, my active involvement has 
included the internally--one of the internal organizers for [inaudible] Discovery Park, preventing 
Discovery Park from becoming a golf course. And then I also participated in the efforts against, 
uh, nuclear power in western Washington. Then the 10 acres that I-I did work full-time at some 
point to able to afford to protect that I now, quote, unquote, own, are, I'm putting in 
conservation--starting the conversation process so that it's going to be a protected [inaudible]. 
Um, it was on Martin Luther King Day in 1980 that I made the last payment--no, it was 1990 
that [inaudible]. Look at the mailboxes of the island [inaudible] that would say "We're all safe. 
[Inaudible.] Everybody's safe." Which is and isn't true. I don't know how much we're going to 
ultimately be able to protect things, but I believe that at the moment, I'll still do what I can. 
[Inaudible] cut down a tree if it's threatening the house. And now it's a wildlife refuge in-in 
perpetuity, so long as the-the laws hold.  
 
Jody Aliesan  18:53 
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Um, and then another thing that I've done environmentally is put together, um, a four-weekend 
open house at the house that I shared with Brandy, which we had, for ourselves, changed into a 
sort of place that made it possible to live certain values associated with rural life in the city. 
Aand so I got a grant from the Department of Energy [inaudible], but, um, in order to show this 
place. Um, a self-guiding open house. And in those eight days, one weekend at the beginning of 
each season--altogether about--all of the [inaudible] were super lively, but if I remember, about 
4,000 people went through that open house, and one of them was a feature editor at The [Seattle] 
Times who asked me to do a bi-weekly column called "The Urban Homestead" that I [inaudible]. 
Um... At a time when a lot of these ideas were still relatively undiscussed. 
 
Jody Aliesan  20:17 
They were the ways people lived before [inaudible]. A lot of our grandparents lived-lived that 
way. Conservation of electricity, [inaudible], gardening, composting, keeping colonies of bees, 
recycling, all the rest of things that are institutionalized now. And [inaudible] utilities, but there 
was a 19-page handout with a lot of specific advice about how people could change their lives in 
ways that weren't high-tech, didn't cost money, and only involved uh, small changes of habit. 
Changing [inaudible] these.  
 
Jody Aliesan  21:03 
I did that. Then, uh, as far as, um, women's organizations are concerned, uh, I still feel myself, 
uh, supportive, especially in voluntary donations on a monthly basis, indefinitely, [inaudible] 
getting started back in the early '70s [inaudible]. Lesbian Resource Center, [inaudible], YWCA, 
[inaudible], and in other ways and other organizations, too. [Inaudible]. Anyways, uh, my 
thoughts on this are mostly where I feel right now, as it is also [inaudible] where I feel that my 
responsibility is to educate myself. Be a source of information for other people in the effort to, 
um, move towards a free, independent, united, and [inaudible] country. So, uh, at this point, I 
would say that my involvement politically is mostly as a source of information, um, to keep 
myself informed, to support specific events, participate in, particularly in short-term campaigns, 
and make voluntary donations. And I will continue to take the responsibility of educating myself, 
uh, in the direction of both the radical and the liberal perspective and the [inaudible] perspective, 
and the [inaudible].  
 
Julie O'Grady  21:11 
[Inaudible.] 
 
Jody Aliesan  21:12 
Shall I go on? How much time do we have? 
 
Julie O'Grady  22:39 
Um, I think we have--I'm going to turn the recorder off for a second to see how much time we 
have. Okay, the recorder was off for a couple of seconds. We're back on again. 
 
Jody Aliesan  23:25 
All right, um. One-one of the questions had to do with, um, aspirations. And I was just 
remembering a few specific things out of my life. Uh, I remember when I concluded that I 
wanted to go to college, which is when I was real young, I was in kindergarten. I wrote out what 
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I wanted to do with my life, point-blank, when I imagined myself at the age twenty-one, that was 
far as I could see. But I wanted to go to college, and my mother felt all the way--and said all the 
way through--that it would be good for me to get a teaching certificate, because I could fall back 
on it. It was something I could fall back on. The assumption being that I would, um, not be 
financially independent, that I would not have my own employment. Except something happened 
in my life where my assumed husband was unable to support me. Um, college was fine, both my 
parents disliked the idea of me going to graduate school. They didn't really--I said this before--
not that they were funding it at all, but they disapproved of graduate school. 
 
Jody Aliesan  24:41 
After my first book was published, and I talked--I mentioned the moment I was working on the 
second. I wanted it--I wanted to be better than the first one. She said, "Why do you have to write 
another one? Why don't you just rest on your laurels?" And then I remember when I was elected 
May Queen, and I left the meeting after discovering that I had been elected, and ran to the 
nearest payphone, called the mother to tell her, and she was not impressed, and she said, "Well, 
just don't let it go to your head." And it sounds like I'm singling her out. And as opposed to my 
father, but my father was mostly not present, silent. And I'm just pointing out that there was a 
lack of support for aspiration. I don't know if it came from disapproval in terms of my leaving 
my community, and my class, not taking my place in a subordinate way, generation-
generationally, or whether it was some kind of jealousy or competition on the part of-of a woman 
who felt that she didn't achieve what she deserved because of the limitations that were placed on 
her. She was very much more of a leader than her life allowed her to be, um, but I didn't get--and 
I'm sure most women in the family even now--didn't get that celebration or, um, cheering 
response to aspirations and success that boy children, [inaudible]. People were troubled and 
biblical. [Inaudible.] 
 
Julie O'Grady  26:51 
Okay, good. So we will bring the interview to a close now.  
 
Jody Aliesan  26:56 
Oh! 
 
Julie O'Grady  26:57 
Do you have something-- 
 
Jody Aliesan  26:58 
Just one more thing. I mentioned organizations that I was supporting. I also want to, um, mention 
the Bailey-Boushay House, and the Privacy Fund, the Pride Foundation, and ABLE, and Chicken 
Soup, and-- 
 
Julie O'Grady  27:11 
Do you want to-- 
 
Jody Aliesan  27:12 
--all those organizations that are doing a great job-- 
 
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Jody Aliesan  27:14 
Oh, um, skilled nursing care facility for people who are living with AIDS. 
 
Julie O'Grady  27:14 
--say what each organization does?  
 
Julie O'Grady  27:21 
And Chicken Soup? 
 
Jody Aliesan  27:21 
Chicken Soup Brigade is an organization that provides, um, meals and transportation and toys 
and other service for people who are living with AIDS. And ABLE is a relatively new 
organization working on the issue of battering in the lesbian community, and um, I just wanted to 
mention their names. And the Privacy Fund has recently merged with [inaudible], and they're 
also doing a great job, legislatively. And Pride Foundation and the Privacy Fund has a 
Washington legislative grassroots organizing, and the Pride Foundation in raising money and 
distributing it to, um, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender communities, organizations. That's it. 
[Laughs.] 
 
Julie O'Grady  28:23 
All right, thank you very much. This is the end of side B of tape three. [Recording ends.] 
 